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Redwood Sound Board Bookmatching
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=6666		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  rich altieri [ Sat May 13, 2006 1:09 pm ]
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I bought a beautiful redwood soundboard set from Bruce Dickey and did some work on it this weekend. Now here is the question: I thought I did a good job of bookmatching during glue up. Used the center grain toward the bottom which matches up perfectly and when it was rough sanded I thought the flame was also aligned.

Did a rough profile and then sanded on the Performax. Next sprayed a couple coats of Shellac in preparation for rosetting. Once the shellac was on it, the match didnt seem right.

Did I screw up this beautiful piece of wood or is it common that the flame wouldn't line up while the center grain orientation did?

Author:  rich altieri [ Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm ]
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Thanks Hesh. I think I will continue forward with it.

Man, that is one heck of a nice guitar you posted here, as is your other one I looked at tonight. What's your secret?? Were you a master at woodworking before taking up guitar building? Or just simply a knack for patience and natural born talent??

I am getting better with each build but man they don't come close to yours and others on OLF, even though I have quite a few under my belt.
Author:  John K [ Sat May 13, 2006 2:27 pm ]
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Rich your top is fine. It's natural for curls to look light on one side and dark on the other side because the fibers are angling out on one side and plunging down on the other side.

Looks like a match to me.

John
Author:  Larry Davis [ Sat May 13, 2006 2:36 pm ]
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Rich, study the finished photo of Hesh's redwood top carefully. It's not so much out of alignment as one side is positive and one side is negative (so to speak). Redwood and other curly woods get the figure "play of lights" look from light refraction bouncing off the side walls of undulating grain structure. Bookmatched, one sie will refract opposite of the other. Here's a photo of what fiddleback maple grain (undulating) looks like. Imagine sawing straight thru the undulations. Hesh's top is almost dead matched, but with opposite refractions.
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Sat May 13, 2006 4:07 pm ]
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Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Sat May 13, 2006 4:12 pm ]
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I've enjoyed working with this redwood. And it does exactly as you guys say, it reverse refracts from side to side. Very similiar to what happens on a Sitka top with run out, one side is light, the other is dark. Flip the guitar 180 degrees and the color changes exactly opposite of the way it was before turning.
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Sat May 13, 2006 4:20 pm ]
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It's funny how the light will make it look a little off. I think yours will be fine Rich,looks good
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sat May 13, 2006 6:29 pm ]
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What Larry Said. It's totally normal; I'm used to the look because I've handled a boatload of maple tops which do the same thing.
Author:  peterm [ Sun May 14, 2006 4:51 am ]
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I think thats the beauty of the redwood! Hesh, that top rules!
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sun May 14, 2006 9:45 am ]
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remember as well that the runout may not be prefectly running at 90 degrees to the top grain lines - so the losses from splitting and sanding cause the prefect bookmatch to move away from each other, hence each side doesnt line up perfectly anymore.
Author:  rich altieri [ Sun May 14, 2006 10:15 pm ]
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[QUOTE=TonyKarol] remember as well that the runout may not be prefectly running at 90 degrees to the top grain lines - so the losses from splitting and sanding cause the prefect bookmatch to move away from each other, hence each side doesnt line up perfectly anymore.[/QUOTE]

Never gave this any thought but makes perfect sense now. Thanks Tony, and to all for your input
Author:  Dennis E. [ Mon May 15, 2006 9:24 pm ]
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Is there any reason why someone couldn't lay down a light sealer or finish on the top before jointing and book matching?

Also it possible that the varying angle of the figure relative to the surface in each side could cause the position of the figure to shift at different rates when the top is sanded?



Dennis E.38853.2766087963
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Mon May 15, 2006 9:30 pm ]
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Dennis: why would you want to? My only worry would be that if the finish sunk into the surface at all, it just might interfere with the glue.
Author:  Dennis E. [ Mon May 15, 2006 9:40 pm ]
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Well, actually, my thought was that one might be able to bookmatch it better by wetting the wood. Also, since it is done before shooting the joint, it seems to me there would be fresh wood for the glue surface.

As I say, I'm ignorant!
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Mon May 15, 2006 10:05 pm ]
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Um, if it's been matched properly, it's usually marked on the 'face' side, and looking at it will show you the rest. A smoothly planed surface shows off the figure really quite well.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon May 15, 2006 10:51 pm ]
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One would think that simply by lining up the ends of the boards you could achieve a perfect match, but like it was mentioned above, the figure may move around when the board is sanded, or before that, right after its been resawn - just the 40-50 thou of a blade may show off the slant of the figure as it travels thru the board and thus, an adjustment of sorts may be required to line it up again as close as possible to glue - but once you start to plane/scrape/sand to prep the wood for finish it will likely be moving again. No one ever said mother nature had to be perfectly bookmatched !!!! Perfect examples o fhtis usualy occur in bearclaw -the runout has to be almost zero plus the claw has to run at perfectly 90 degrees to the grain lines or it will NOT be bookmatched - happens alot I find.
Author:  PaulB [ Mon May 15, 2006 11:33 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey] [/QUOTE]

Oh My...

Author:  Colin S [ Tue May 16, 2006 12:02 am ]
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[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey] [/QUOTE]

Hey Bruce, your going to have to put a couple of F-holes in that top, a soundhole will take away the best bit of figure!

Colin
Author:  LanceK [ Tue May 16, 2006 12:15 am ]
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I love redwood tops!
Author:  CarltonM [ Tue May 16, 2006 4:58 am ]
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[QUOTE=Dennis E.] Well, actually, my thought was that one might be able to bookmatch it better by wetting the wood.[/QUOTE]
Remember, it's not just about matching the curl or quilt. The wood's basic grain lines are what really show the mirror image.
Author:  spruce [ Tue May 16, 2006 11:16 am ]
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Sometimes you don't need to match 'em up...

Here's a pic of a one-piece archtop....   

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